Debian Etch - A minimal setup with X
Posted by Azerthoth on Tue 22 Aug 2006 at 12:56
As a not completely new Linux user I have been frustrated over and over again at all the extra bloat and apps that I will never use that gets loaded onto my system when I do an install. Debian was the second distro that I tried and have used many others since, but I keep coming back.
With Etch I finally decided to get my system MY WAY(tm). No excess junk and no excess apps. After I had played for a little while I came up with the way to do it, and since I had found very little in the way of easily human understandable documentation I thought I would share the process.Now understand that what we are going to do is start from where I changed the installation.
1: netinst CD and an internet connection.
2: start the normal install process and proceed all the way to where it asks if you want to use a network mirror.
3: select NO for network mirror (we will change this in a minute)
4: reboot and log in root
5: edit the sources.list
nano /etc/apt/sources.list
add these lines
deb http://ftp.debian.org/debian etch main contrib non-free
deb-src http://ftp.debian.org/debian etch main contrib non-free
Then make sure to comment out the line with the CD in it with a # otherwise it will drive you nuts asking for that blasted CD that has nothing of anymore use on it.
Close and save the file (double check your spelling and make sure you didnt fat finger any keys like I constantly do)
6: type in the command
apt-get update
7: type in
apt-get install xserver-xorg-core xorg
There will be a few questions at the end, for now just go with the defaults.
8: while apt is doing its thing we need to make a decision.
Which login manager do you want to use? Unless you want to run as root all the time ( #1 bad idea by the way) we need a login manager. Here are the 3 I have used and comments on them.
xdm:
smallest and works well to get you going on your way. Highly configurable.
gdm:
easily configurable and adds libraries you need if you want to use the synaptic package manager. (also contains alot of the extra functions of xdm)
kdm:
largest and bloated, I list it only because I know a few people who like it. (my opinion)
It honestly makes no differance to us which you pick. For ease of configuration I'd suggest gdm, if your just setting up a single user machine and will never change your desktop interface xdm might be the way to go. Your choice (thats what Linux is about right?)It doesnt matter which desktop environment you are going to use, any of them will fire up what ever you happen to have
So we
apt-get install xdm/gdm/kdm
9: Next decision, what desktop package to put in?
GNOME:
If you want Gnome you have just wasted time reading this, thats what you would have gotten if you had continued on with the installation normally.
KDE:
very much like the operating system that comes from redmond, and nearly as bloated with worthless junk. I have this installed only because my wife likes it.
Fluxbox:
This is the one I use. Very small, fast, and configurable. Its a low frills let our programs use system resources instead of having the desktop environment hog it approach. Nor will this one load your system up with oddbits like Gnome or KDE, however both are integrated with it. So if you install your favorite Gnome app or KDE app it automagicly appears in your menu in fluxbox.
There are others you can use as well, if you have one you like instead, use it.
So we
apt-get install fluxbox/gnome/kde
9A: If you went with fluxbox because like me you wanted to control what apps are on your system instead of letting someone else decide what is right for you. Remember this, fluxbox doesnt ship with proggies AT ALL. so at the very least you will want to add a web browser.
apt-get install firefox(my choice, again use what you like)
10: reboot and poof you should be up and running.
For those who are wondering this worked equally well on my desktop as it did my laptop. I hope this helps someone else who like me is still learning all the wonderful things that can be done with Linux, but needs a few pointers because face it, we arent all programmers and everyone has to start the process of understanding somewhere.
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#Testing security patches
deb http://security.debian.org/ etch/updates main contrib non-free
deb-src http://security.debian.org/ etch/updates main contrib non-free
Only for critical updates, those that don't go via-unstable, does Etch get security patches so the frequency is small, but the patches nevertheless important.
/c
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Thanks for correcting me.
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deb-src http://security.debian.org/ etch/updates main contrib non-free
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Converting M$ addicts one CD at a time.
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i've been a linux user since '99 (redhat 6.2) and have used startx since the beginning. at one point i tried a display manager, but something went wrong somewhere and xdm kept failing and init kept spawning it. i decided then that it wasn't worth the pain so i stuck with startx and have to this day.
startx also allows me to easily set up one xorg.conf section to use dual head and another to only use one head (to allow for dri as the way i prefer running dual head as two separate screens without xinerama doesn't allow for dri).
not that there's anything wrong with a display manager, but to best suit my preferences i forgo them and just use startx (as an ordinary user, not root).
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...and nearly as bloated with worthless junk...To each his own. I find KDE a newbie-friendly desktop system, which BTW on my machine, a run-of-the-mill PC with 1G ram runs fast enough. Where was that kdetv app I was looking for now..
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It should be Kwin vs blackbox, you still need applications, and these must use some GUI toolkit.
If one is running several KDE apps, I see no reason not to use whole environment.
If, however, applications are mostly firefox and terminal emulators, then something like blackbox makes perfect sense.
P.S.
I'm using KDE and mostly KDE/Qt applications (e.g. konqueror, not firefox), so I didn't liked how article describes it as bloated or slow - it isn't neither.
Even hot starting firefox takes ~2sec. to apear, while precached konqueror less than 0.2sec.
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Running KDE or Gnome is not an option!
They are very bloated, and very resource intensive.
I find xfce4 can run the same apps with MUCH less impact on resources.
It works just as well KDE or Gnome does on a P4 or AMD 64.
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# /etc/init.d/gdm start
will do the trick to launch the login manager. gdm also has some nice features the wife appreciates on her system; auto logon to her account, shutdown from user account (not root), etc. Of course these choices aren't for everyone.
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let me second the usage of openbox. i used blackbox, then fluxbox, and now openbox for some years (since the release canidates).
as a side note: fluxbox is no more "integrated" into gnome or kde than any other window manager where the debian developer has written a script and placed it in the right location for use by the debian menu package.
honestly, the straw that broke the camel's back was the alt-tab behavior of fluxbox: when i press alt-tab to switch to a window, i expect hitting alt-tab to switch me back to the previous window, so as to allow me to easily toggle between two windows.
but openbox is also conformant to netwm specs (unlike fluxbox is/was), a window manager standard, so third-party tools like pypanel integrate well with it.
yeah, it was a few more dependencies than fluxbox (libxml), but for me it has the right balance between features and resource usage.
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I always install etch and at the very last screen I don't check any boxes (no desktop env, web server, or anything like that). It then does its updates (with security already added) and gives me root login.
At login I type a few simple commands:
apt-get install x-windows-system-core
apt-get install gnome-core
(or I could use kdecore, fluxbox, or xfce4)
Lastly I can install a login manager
apt-get install gdm
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Debian X packages are divided in a way to make this easy (don't remember how just now :( so you have to wait for others to fill in). Just install x-clients(?) and a ssh-server.
Then you can run X programs from other computers with an X-server installed :)
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Anyway, it's nice to see others with the same needs. Thanks.
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What was the point of bashing KDE for example?
I have few hints for poster: konqueror is probably
the fastest graphical browser out there (dillo may
be faster but it doesn't handle CSS at all;
I haven't tested Opera, but it's not it Debian...).
Additionaly konqueror uses far less RAM than for
example Firefox. Really. I've been using
konqueror for about 1.5 years on Celeron 333MHz
with 64MB of RAM...
Just because I use KDE apps (konqueror and
akregator) and I prefer KDE features over GNOME
simplicity doesn't mean I bash GNOME by writing
that it's just worthless piece of junk. Every project
has its own set of goals, not everything you don't
understand is crap. It's that simple.
Remember: "What you are saying about others tells
more about you, than about them" (translated from
my native tongue, I hope you get the meaning).
</offtopic>
I would also add Window Maker/Afterstep and FVWM
to the list of lightweight WMs.
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[ Send Message | View Steve's Scratchpad | View Weblogs ]
I almost didn't post it, but I figured that it was worth it as an experiment to see how people reacted.
If the ranting got out of hand I'd know not to do it in the future ..
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I have found justifying my opinions (and we all have them) to be even more educational. In the future I will make a stronger effort to lay out the facts as I know them at the time with a minimal amount of opinion behind them. Unfortunatly if I didnt have an opinion, I probably wouldnt take the time to bother with writing about it.
Converting M$ addicts one CD at a time.
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i have this thing in .deb (works for me)
http://debian.sshonly.sytes.net/unstable/slim_1.2.5-1_i386.deb
for those openbox users here:
you guys using openbox from unstable or compiled from cvs? or 3.3? i am currently using the cvs version with the menu header patch.. VERY nice (=
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~$ openbox --version
Openbox 3.2
This is the debian stable package.
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http://blueflops.sourceforge.net/
may give some ideas on the configuration. a debian version would be larger, of course, but it still would be fairly small. it definately isn't for everyone, but it may fit a niche.
personally, i too like fluxbox, but the family does prefer kde. installing just the core seems to keep down the installed size a bit.
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Using startx and an .xsession file seem to be fine alternatives to a login manager.
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Hmm, come to think of it, thats not such a bad idea after all. *grin*
Converting M$ addicts one CD at a time.
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Instead of "apt-get install gnome/kde" go for "apt-get install gnome-core/kde-core". Then you will have to grab your own browser, fat email client and other applications, but you'll get the choice.
I run this approach on three of my systems and have noticed no critically missing functionality.
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Also, if you're wanting to avoid bloat, then XFCE tends to be a decent compromise - fairly nippy, but still with a great deal of usefulness, not to mention the fact that it uses GTK, so those applications will fit in nicely. Personally, I find apt-get install gnome-core gdm is the first step for me, and then I can just add in whatever I need as I need it.
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APT? with Atitutde! I don't think that is even an option in a Manual Package Selection Installation vs. desktop when you only have a 2.1 GB drive to contend with.
These outlined steps are how I have it so far, and am thankful they were posted, but they need to be re presented in something like this:
STEPS to a Minimal Setup with X
Take a fresh breath and say "Hello World"
0. Perform a Net Install off base CD
1. Start the normal install process and proceed all the way until it asks you if you want to use a network mirror, select CANCEL, then Execute a command prompt.
2. nono /etc/apt/sources.list
3. Add the following lines to sources.list
deb http://ftp.debian.org/debian etch main contrib non-free
deb-src http://ftp.debian.org/debian etch main contrib non-free
deb http://security.debian.org/etch updates main contrib non-free
deb-src http://security.debian.org/etch updates main contrib non-free
Quit and Save the File [Y] or y, I prefer the latter letter.
Hope that helps.. Its more of a condensed version of all of the posts on this thread..
I'm trying this for the first time so, hopefully all goes well, No news is good news!
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Given today's hardware, cutting fat is far less important than it was 10 years ago. I am not advocating that fat systems such as Windows are efficient; they are far from it, but my Etch box with Gnome is fast and usable, FOR ME. Functionality is not a bad thing, and condemning people for wanting functionality beyond ratpoison and screen is ludicrous.
I could care less what others use, nor do I condemn what others use, even if I do not like the choices they have made, because as GNU/Linux users, we can make those choices. Don't argue that MY choices be cut just because you think they should be. Who are you to make choices for me?
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Thanks,
Zarephath
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http://www.suckless.org/wiki/dwm
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Installing both xorg and xserver-xorg-core is simply redundant. Just install the xorg package. It's a minimal package as it is, with the only non-required bit being xterm, which most people will want anyhow. If people are really hurting for disk space, they can remove unneccessary drivers once they're done with the install.
- David Nusinow
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Your statement that you need a display manager (xdm/gdm/kdm) if you want to run as anything other than root is incorrect. You need a display manger to start the graphical login process; else you get a text login box and need to start the Xserver with the command 'startx' at the command line after logging in as usual with username and password. To add new users you need the adduser command.
To choose the window manager/desktop environment, you can edit ~/.xinitrc or ~/.xsession and add as the last line 'gnome-session' 'startkde' or 'fluxbox' as per choice.
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Since I'm running on a PI-266Mhz and 32MB of RAM, there's not much that runs on it, like KNOPPIX 3.3, but that was just nothing....
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