Weblog entry #37 for Steve
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I've setup a beta-site for the new look and feel. It contains a full dump of the live site.
The demo site will not accept submissions, and emails will not be sent on comments.
Otherwise it should behave as the live site.
Feedback appreciated, although there is still a bit of work to be done on the styling of different areas:
- http://beta.debian-administration.org/
(Update: you might notice some of the other new features I've been working upon. For example weblog owners can delete comments if they wish, login sessions persist for longer, etc. Lets see how many you spot ;)
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I find the text colours on this site too pale, especially in the sidebars.
Whilst in general I like the current site it is horribly difficult to work with, and for that reason alone it needs to change. It might be possible to keep the current layout and just code it in CSS instead of tables but it is beyond my abilities to do so. So the new site is being written for several reasons:
- To make it easier to work with (in terms of coding, but also navigation)
- To allow other people to override the look and feel if they wish - because I know I'm not going to please everybody.
- To make it possible to use the codebase upon other sites without so many hard-coded references.
I'm not sure what you think makes the current site clean and the new one antiquated - in practise they are identical:
- Header
- Three column layout (sometimes in the current site the right-most column is blank, but it is always present)
- Footer
In practical terms the difference between the site can be summed up in three points:
- The header + footers are different. Here they are full-width, there they are bounded by the columns.
- The colours are different.
- The implementation (tables vs. css).
Steve
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TFT shared between two PCs via a KVM switch.
(And an LCD panel upon a laptop...)
I wonder why the question ...?
Steve
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For my eyes too wild (but i see red/green colors not right)
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One explicit goal was to use a lot of "Debian Red", but it looks like I'm alone in finding that attractive.
I've toned it down now - is that better for you?
Steve
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BUT AGAIN I'M NOT THE ONLY VISITOR, AND IT'S YOUR DECISION
For me the content of your site is more important.
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Sure, thanks.
I've had a few other comments on the high-redness so I'm prepared to allow the default to be non-red. I'll just override my copy with a local stylesheet - after all that is half the attaction of using CSS :)
Steve
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So there are "Endless Possibilities" ;)
Have a nice weekend.
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1. Ctrl++ makes Debian-Administration.org go below right most column. I usually wouldn't advise but I think we should use an image here.
2. The look is kind of jagged. Reason: the top grey rectangles on all three columns do not align horizontally. This didn't give me a pleasing effect. But that could only be me ;)
3. I would love to have some rounded corners in there for the sections in left and right columns. Easiest way for that would be by using images, but javascript is also a good candidate.
Gotta go. Will try to cook something and give a screenshot if it is "delicious" ;)
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I think the big space top left looks ugly. And the logo looks a bit silly too IMHO.
I browse with slightly enlarged fonts (1024x768), and see the title truncated "Debian-Administration.o", but then I think the ".org" bit is superfluous anyway, and looks very 1990's.
Am I right in thinking there are slightly more fonts in use? Anyway certain little things make me prefer the beta site. But then I hate that browny, beigey colour the current site uses, if I liked that sort of colour I'd use Ubuntu ;)
I think we lost a little bit of spacing between sections in the sidebars, and that would be better added back in.
The "[ | | | ]" thing I don't like either, can't we have them look more like buttons (different background colour), although probably need to make sure it is accessible someway if you do that.
The front page navigation bar breaks nastily, I'm sure with CSS you should easily be able to make it center, but then the enclosing "[" and "]" wouldn't match.
The navigation bar has the same background as the subtitle at the sides, but is clickable unlike the headings.
The article metadata ("Posted by ") is too large/prominents, so you tend to try and read it, maybe smaller font, or right align.
div.teaser div.tagline
{
font-style: italic;
text-align: right;
font-size: 92%;
}
Hmm well maybe something like that.
We gained "Lucinda" font for headings, and we seem to have similar for text (or possibly that is my browser default), but maybe it is the impact of my current webdesigner chap, I prefer the old site, all the fonts without serifs. I especially hate that little line at the bottom of the "f" character. Of course that is a matter of taste, and you (or possibly Firefox) are wrong. I don't necessarily want san-serif family though-out, just the fiddly bits make it look more cluttered to me, especially as there is a lot of text (not something that bothers me).
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Thanks for the long comment with interesting points. I'll try to adress them all...Someone is clearly more adept at this that me.
At commenting, or making the CSS transition happen? Not sure which you mean..I think the big space top left looks ugly. And the logo looks a bit silly too IMHO.
The space on the left I am in two minds about. I found that not having it originally made things look a little crowded. Compare:
On balance I think I prefer it with the spacer, but I'm not too sure.I browse with slightly enlarged fonts (1024x768), and see the title truncated "Debian-Administration.o", but then I think the ".org" bit is superfluous anyway, and looks very 1990's.
Agreed. I've removed the ".org", and changed the - into a space which should solve that problem.
Am I right in thinking there are slightly more fonts in use?
Yes there are more fonts in place, however like a lot of other aspects of the "design" I'm well awre of my personal limitations and bias. So if people wish to suggest changes I'm happy to try them out and see which look best.
Whilst I think it would be a huge time investment to allow voting on all things I'm not trying to force things that are bad or broken on people - if there is a consensus that an aspect or two can be changed for the better then I'll do it. Anyway certain little things make me prefer the beta site. But then I hate that browny, beigey colour the current site uses, if I liked that sort of colour I'd use Ubuntu ;)
Hehe!
I'm not a fan of the browny-beigey colour at the moment .. I'm actually genuinely suprised that people prefer that to the "standard" monochrome + red/blue.I think we lost a little bit of spacing between sections in the sidebars, and that would be better added back in.
If you could point to where that is gone I'd be happy to try?The "[ | | | ]" thing I don't like either, can't we have them look more like buttons (different background colour), although probably need to make sure it is accessible someway if you do that.
Yes that looks more grating to me now that the background isn't the previous red. Previously it looked good now it looks confusing.The front page navigation bar breaks nastily, I'm sure with CSS you should easily be able to make it center, but then the enclosing "[" and "]" wouldn't match.
True. My idea of fixing this was two-fold:
- Remove the "Home" link which is duplicatd in the logo.
- Make the fonts slightly smaller.
True. That should be changed, previously these were white on a red background and under pressure I dropped the red without updating this. I guess these shuld be "normal" links with the appropriate colours.
Although I like the idea of a coloured background it seems that the red was too much - and I'm not sold on a new colour just yet.The article metadata ("Posted by ") is too large/prominents, so you tend to try and read it, maybe smaller font, or right align.
Right aligned and shrunk now, thanks for the suggestion.We gained "Lucinda" font for headings, and we seem to have similar for text (or possibly that is my browser default), but maybe it is the impact of my current webdesigner chap, I prefer the old site, all the fonts without serifs.
I think this is individual preference and could go either way.
Still this is the kind of thing that I'm expecting will be overriden, either with a selectable stylesheet or a user-created one. Not too sure just now how much it will be worth creating more than one style for the site.
It might get confusing if people can choose between different ones. ...
Steve
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To address your points by numbers:
1. Yes, agreed. I'm tempted to drop the .org
2. The left + right columns should be vertically aligned, but I agree the central header isn't. Not sure how to solve that just yet.
3. Seconded. I just suck at making small graphics. The reason I haven't yet tried is that we get into the colour question - not sure which colours to use. The current #eee was the first I tried after the "Debian Red" which seemed to be universally unpopular ..
Steve
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